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Author kein fotrschritt beim Bankdrücken!?
flex78

Beiträge: 45
Aus: Zürich (schweiz)
Registriert: 03.11.2002

05.09.2003 19:31     Profil von flex78   flex78 eine Nachricht schreiben     Beitrag editieren/löschen
heute habe ich brust und trizeps trainiert aber irgendwie komme ich nicht über die 90kg grenze beim bankdrücken und die schaff ich nicht mal drei mal alleine!! das ist echt frustrierend! hat irgend jemand einen tipp fürs training? bitte keine kur vorschläge.. :-)

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der Kalif

Beiträge: 328
Aus: Hockenheim
Registriert: 13.01.2001

05.09.2003 19:52     Profil von der Kalif   der Kalif eine Nachricht schreiben     Beitrag editieren/löschen
wie kappa schon immer sagt: wenn nicht bei jedem training ne kraftsteigerung möglich ist, liegts an einem dieser punkte: 1.übertraining 2. kein reiz gesetzt 3.genetisches limit erreicht (unwahrscheinlich) probiers einfach mal mit 1 oder 2 tagen mehr pause, aber um genaueres zu sagen muss man mehr übern tplan usw wissen.

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flex78

Beiträge: 45
Aus: Zürich (schweiz)
Registriert: 03.11.2002

05.09.2003 19:58     Profil von flex78   flex78 eine Nachricht schreiben     Beitrag editieren/löschen
was ich sollte bei jedem training ne kraftsteigerung erleben!? ja übertraining kanns nicht sein denn ich hab nur noch ein dreier split, gehe also dreimal die woch ins training das sich der muskel auch richtig erholen und wachsen kann... nun kann es ja nur noch an dem reitz liegen!? wie erreich ich denn am besten? vieleicht ne blöde frage aber vieleicht erfahre ich ja noch was, dass ich nicht weiss...???

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jimmy.klitschi

Beiträge: 439
Aus: Dresden
Registriert: 29.04.2002

06.09.2003 11:26     Profil von jimmy.klitschi   jimmy.klitschi eine Nachricht schreiben     Beitrag editieren/löschen
Also wenn es dir hauptsächlich um eine Verbesserung der Leistung geht, danngibt es einen ganzen Katalog an Tipps, angefangen bei der Griff- und Ellenbogenweite/stellung bis hin zu speziellen Trainingszyklen, u.a. vom von mir hochgeschätzten F. Hatfield. Da ich auch kein Bankdrück-Experte bin, würd ich an deiner Stelle mal im Kraftsport-Forum nachfragen, oder du hast das Glück, dass hier mal zyko reinschaut. Tschüss

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Ecko

Beiträge: 3884
Aus: um die Ecke
Registriert: 25.08.2003

06.09.2003 18:01     Profil von Ecko   Ecko eine Nachricht schreiben     Beitrag editieren/löschen
Is ja kein WUnder das 90 Kilo mit nem 36er Bizeps nicht funktionieren....

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flex78

Beiträge: 45
Aus: Zürich (schweiz)
Registriert: 03.11.2002

06.09.2003 23:05     Profil von flex78   flex78 eine Nachricht schreiben     Beitrag editieren/löschen
wieso sollte das nicht gehen...

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bob411

Beiträge: 121
Aus: Duisburg
Registriert: 17.04.2003

07.09.2003 01:19     Profil von bob411   bob411 eine Nachricht schreiben     Beitrag editieren/löschen
@Ecko Dann erkär doch mal bitte in welcher Relation der Bizepsumfang zum Bankdrücken steht , anstatt hier nur eine Bemerkung ohne jede Erläuterung in die Runde zu werfen (die meiner Meinung nach jeder Grundlage entbehrt). Solche *IchhabedieWeißheitgepachtetsagedirsieabernichtLeute* kann ich gar nicht leiden. :uzis: Wenn dem so wäre, müsste ich wohl mehr Augenmerk auf meinen Bizeps richten. :balabala: @Fleex78 Zuerst solltest du mal dein Training für die Brust posten, damit wir neben den schon angesprochenen Möglichkeiten, warum du dich nicht weiter steigern kannst, sehen können, ob es nicht doch am Training liegt. Ausserdem ist die Regeneration von grosser Bedeutung (habe ich zumindest bei mir festgestellt). Wenn ich z.B nur eine Stunde am Trainingstag zu wenig bzw. schlecht geschlafen habe, kommt es häufig vor, dass ich keine Gewichts/Wiederholungssteigerung verzeichnen kann. Also genügend und >regelmäßig< schlafen ! Auch mit dem Alkohol würde ich geizen, falls du ihn häufiger konsumierst, denn der Körper ist zuerst damit beschäftigt diesen abzubauen.

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DareDevil

Beiträge: 507
Aus: Menlo Park, CA, U.S.A
Registriert: 22.08.2003

07.09.2003 08:40     Profil von DareDevil   DareDevil eine Nachricht schreiben     Beitrag editieren/löschen
Ich habe hier im Forum mal etwas von "Russischen Komplexsätzen" fürs Bankdrücken gelesen. Ich bin seit drei Wochen selber dabei, sowohl diese als auch die Methoden des Westside Barbell Clubs anzutesten, beide Methoden scheinen mir recht erfolgversprechend zu sein. Mach dich mal bitte mit ihnen vertraut, solltest in der Lage sein, das 90-kg-Limit auszuhebeln. Ein genetisches Limit dürfte nahezu ausgeschlossen sein.

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halotestin

Beiträge: 675
Aus: Wien
Registriert: 20.07.2003

07.09.2003 09:26     Profil von halotestin   halotestin eine Nachricht schreiben     Beitrag editieren/löschen
Tag 1: Bd maxkraft/Schulter/Trapez/Biceps/Bauch 2x Bankdrücken 2-3Wh (mit Hilfe) 3x Aufrechtes rudern 8-12Wh 3x Shrugs – 8-12Wh 2x Scottcurls – 8-12Wh 2x Kh-curls – 8-12Wh 2x Bauchmaschine 2x Beinheben an der Klimmzugstange Tag 2 Bd explosivkraft/Rücken 10x Bandrücken 3Wh (explosiv, 60%) 3x Klimmzüge 6-12Wh 3x Lh-rudern 8-12Wh 3x Kreuzheben (submaximal) 8-12Wh Tag 3 Bd Maxkraft-Hypertophie/Brust/Triceps/Biceps/Bauch 3x Bankdrücken 6-8Wh 3x Dips 8-12Wh 2x Lh-curls 6-8Wh 2x Hammercurls Schrägbank 8-12Wh 2x Crunches mit Zusatzgewicht 2x Beinheben an der Klimmzugstange Tag 4 Beine/hintere Schulter 2x Beinpresse 8-12Wh 2x Beincurls 8-12Wh 4x Donkey Wadenheben 10-15Wh 4x Reverse Butterfly 8-12Wh probier mal denn plan der muss funzen ist von so einem 17 jährigen wunderkind lg

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WuddiWuppen

Beiträge: 345
Aus: Rheda-Wiedenbrück
Registriert: 10.04.2002

07.09.2003 14:06     Profil von WuddiWuppen   WuddiWuppen eine Nachricht schreiben     Beitrag editieren/löschen
Hallo, wer so ein bisschen mit Englisch klar kommt: http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/manrodt4.htm Gruss Wuddi

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blueicedragon

Beiträge: 174
Aus: Hardheim
Registriert: 07.09.2003

07.09.2003 18:23     Profil von blueicedragon   blueicedragon eine Nachricht schreiben     Beitrag editieren/löschen
Hi Flex - das Problem kenne ich. Bei mir war vor einigen Jahren nach mehreren Monaten intensiven Trainings bei 75kg Schluss / Aus / Ende... Ist so eine Art Plateaueffekt, der eintritt, wenn die Belastungsart immer und immer diesselbe ist. Kurz um: Lass die Übung mal nen Monat links liegen. Ich weiss, daß sich das blöd anhört und nach dem Monat ist deine Leistung erst mal geringer als jetzt, aber danach geht es dann wieder weiter. Manchmal hilft es aber auch schon, eine etwas anders geartete Übung auszuführen, die den gleichen Muskel trainiert, damit wieder ein Trainingsreiz entsteht. Generell sollte eine Übung nie mehrere Monate hintereinander ausgeführt werden - es bringt einfach nichts - zumindest nicht für normalsterbliche.

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Ivan Drago

Beiträge: 66
Aus: Jülich
Registriert: 22.01.2002

09.09.2003 02:03     Profil von Ivan Drago   Ivan Drago eine Nachricht schreiben     Beitrag editieren/löschen
12 Steps to a Bigger Bench by Dave Tate 1 – Train the Triceps Years ago, if you had asked Larry Pacifico how to get a big bench, he'd have told you to train the triceps. This same advice applies today. This doesn't mean doing set after set of pushdowns, kickbacks, and other so-called "shaping" exercises. Training your triceps for a big bench has to involve heavy extensions and close-grip pressing movements such as close-grip flat and incline bench presses, close-grip board presses, and JM presses. Various barbell and dumbbell extensions should also be staples of your training program. Don't let anyone try to tell you the bench press is about pec strength. These people don't know the correct way to bench and are setting you up for a short pressing career with sub-par weights. I just read an article in one of the major muscle magazines by one of these authors on how to increase your bench press. The advice given was to train your pecs with crossovers and flies and your bench will go up! This, along with many other points, made me wonder how this article ever got published or better yet, how much the author himself could bench. I believe articles should go under a peer review board before they get printed. I'd like many of my peers to review these authors in the gym or better yet on the bench to see how much they really know. Bottom line: Train the triceps! 2 – Keep your shoulder blades pulled together and tight. This is a very important and often overlooked aspect of great bench pressing. While pressing you have to create the most stable environment possible. This can't be done if most of your shoulder blades are off the bench. The bench is only so wide and we can't change this, but we can change how we position ourselves on the bench. When you pull your shoulder blades together you're creating a tighter, more stable surface from which to press. This is because more of your body is in contact with the bench. The tightness of your upper back also contributes. These techniques also change the distance the bar will have to travel. The key to pressing big weight is to press the shortest distance possible. 3 – Keep the pressure on your upper back and traps. This is another misunderstood aspect of pressing. You want the pressure around the supporting muscles. This is accomplished by driving your feet into the floor, thereby driving your body into the bench. Try this: Lie on the bench and line up so your eyes are four inches in front of the bar (toward your feet). Now using your legs, drive yourself into the bench to put pressure on the upper back and traps. Your eyes should now be even with the bar. This is the same pressure that needs to be applied while pushing the barbell. 4 – Push the bar in a straight line. Try to push the bar toward your feet. The shortest distance between two points is a straight line, right? Then why in the world would some coaches advocate pressing in a "J" line toward the rack? If I were to bench the way most trainers are advocating (with my elbows out, bringing the bar down to the chest and pressing toward the rack) my barbell travel distance would be 16 inches. Now, if I pull my shoulder blades together, tuck my chin and elbows, and bring the bar to my upper abdominals or lower chest, then my pressing distance is only 6.5 inches. Now which would you prefer? If you want to push up a bar-bending load of plates, you'd choose the shorter distance. Here's another important aspect of pressing in this style. By keeping your shoulder blades together and your chin and elbows tucked, you'll have less shoulder rotation when compared to the J-line method of pressing. This is easy to see by watching how low the elbows drop in the bottom part of the press when the barbell is on the chest. With the elbows out, most everyone's elbows are far lower than the bench. This creates a tremendous amount of shoulder rotation and strain. Now try the same thing with the elbows tucked and shoulder blades together while bringing the barbell to your upper abdominals. For most people, the elbows are usually no lower than the bench. Less shoulder rotation equals less strain on the shoulder joint. This means pressing bigger weights for many more years. I've always been amazed at trainers that suggest only doing the top half of the bench press, i.e. stopping when the upper arms are parallel to the floor. This is done to avoid the excess shoulder rotation. All they have to do is teach their clients the proper way to bench in the first place! 5 – Keep the elbows tucked and the bar directly over the wrists and elbows. This is probably the most important aspect of great pressing technique. The elbows must remain tucked to keep the bar in a straight line as explained above. Keeping the elbows tucked will also allow lifters to use their lats to drive the bar off the chest. Football players are taught to drive their opponents with their elbows tucked, then explode through. This is the same for bench pressing. Bench pressing is all about generating force. You can generate far more force with your elbows in a tucked position compared to an "elbows out" position. The most important aspect of this is to keep the barbell in a direct line with the elbow. If the barbell is behind the elbow toward the head, then the arm position becomes similar to an extension, not a press. 6 – Bring the bar low on your chest or upper abdominals. This is the only way you can maintain the "barbell to elbow" position as described above. You may have heard the advice, "Bring it low" at almost every powerlifting competition. This is the reason why. Once again, the barbell must travel in a straight line. 7 – Fill your belly with air and hold it. For maximum attempts and sets under three reps, you must try to hold your air. Everyone must learn to breathe from their bellies and not their chests. If you stand in front of the mirror and take a deep breath, your shoulders shouldn't rise. If they do you're breathing the air into your chest, not your belly. Greater stability can be achieved in all the lifts when you learn how to pull air into the belly. Try to expand and fill the belly with as much air as possible and hold it. If you breathe out during a maximum attempt, the body structure will change slightly, thus changing the groove in which the barbell is traveling. 8 – Train with compensatory acceleration. Push the bar with maximal force. Whatever weight you're trying to push, be it 40% or 100% of your max, you must learn to apply 100% of the force to the barbell. If you can bench 500 pounds and are training with 300 pounds, you must then apply 500 pounds of force to the 300-pound barbell. This is known as compensatory acceleration and it can help you break through sticking points. These sticking points are known as your "mini maxes," or the points at which you miss the lift or the barbell begins to slip out of the groove. Many times I'm asked what to do if the barbell gets stuck four to five inches off the chest. Everybody wants to know what exercise will help them strengthen this area or what body part is holding them back. Many times it isn't what you do to strengthen the area where it sticks, but what you can do to build more acceleration in the area before the mini max. If you can get the bar moving with more force then there won't be a sticking point. Instead, you'll blast right through it. Compensatory acceleration will help you do this. 9 – Squeeze the barbell and try to pull the bar apart! Regardless of the lift, you have to keep your body as tight as Monica Brant's behind. You'll never lift big weights if you're in a relaxed physical state while under the barbell. The best way to get the body tight is by squeezing the bar. We've also found that if you try to pull the bar apart or "break the bar," the triceps seem to become more activated. 10 – Devote one day per week to dynamic-effort training. According to Vladimir Zatsiorsinsky in his text Science and Practice of Strength Training, there are three ways to increase muscle tension. These three methods include the dynamic-effort method, the maximal-effort method, and the repetition method. Most training programs being practiced in the US today only utilize one or two of these methods. It's important, however, to use all three. The bench press should be trained using the dynamic-effort method. This method is best defined as training with sub-maximal weights (45 to 60%) at maximal velocities. The key to this method is bar speed. Percentage training can be very deceiving. The reason for this is because lifters at higher levels have better motor control and recruit more muscle than a less experienced lifter. For example, the maximal amount of muscle you could possibility recruit is 100%. Now, the advanced lifter ­ after years of teaching his nervous system to be efficient ­ may be able to recruit 70 to 80% of muscle fibers, while the intermediate might be able to recruit only 50%. Thus, the advanced lifter would need less percent weight than the intermediate. This is one of the reasons why an advanced lifter squatting 80% of his max for 10 reps would kill himself while a beginner could do it all day long. If you base the training on bar speed, then the percentages are no longer an issue, only a guideline. So how do you know where to start? If you're an intermediate lifter, I suggest you start at 50% of maximal and see how fast you can make it move for three reps. If you can move 20 more pounds with the same speed then use the heavier weight. Based on years of experience and Primlin's charts for optimal percent training, we've found the best range to be eight sets of three reps. Based on Primlin's research, the optimal range for 70% and less is 12 to 24 repetitions. We've also found it very beneficial to train the bench using three different grips, all of which are performed within the rings. This may break down into two sets with the pinky fingers on the rings, three sets with three fingers from the smooth area of the bar and three sets with one finger from the smooth area. 11 – Devote one day per week to maximal-effort training. For the second bench day of the week (72 hours after the dynamic day) you should concentrate on the maximal-effort method. This is best defined as lifting maximal weights (90% to 100%) for one to three reps. This is one of the best methods to develop maximal strength. The key here is to strain. The downfall is you can't train above 90% for longer than three weeks without having adverse effects. Try performing a max bench press every week for four or five weeks. You'll see you may progress for the first two, maybe three weeks, then your progress will halt and begin to work its way backward. We've combated this by switching up the maximal-effort exercises. We rotate maximal-effort movements such as the close-grip incline press, board press, floor press, and close-grip flat press. These exercises are all specific to bench pressing and all have a very high carryover value. 12 – Train the lats on the same plane as the bench. I'm talking about the horizontal plane here. In other words, you must perform rows, rows, and more rows. "If you want to bench big then you need to train the lats." I've heard both George Hilbert and Kenny Patterson say this for years when asked about increasing the bench press. When you bench you're on a horizontal plane. So would it make sense from a balance perspective to train the lats with pulldowns, which are on a vertical plane? Nope. Stick to the barbell row if you want a big bench

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androgen 2000

Beiträge: 240
Aus: Wien
Registriert: 11.05.2001

09.09.2003 04:12     Profil von androgen 2000   androgen 2000 eine Nachricht schreiben     Beitrag editieren/löschen
@ halotestin Von welchem 17-jährige wunderkind sprichst du denn? dem plan nach zu urteilen scheints ja ein bankdrücker zu sein! mfg andro

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